Monday, June 10, 2013

Bavarians originated in Armenia?

We from Marash have always suspected that we may have Germanic roots . . partially because of the local name of our city, "Germanikia" (Latin & Old Armenian) and our periodical, "Kermanig" - And partly because of our appearance --   Marash Girl's father was blonde with blue eyes, her sister and brother both blonde with blue eyes, her husband with blue eyes and white skin, (he's also Marashtsi), and her children, all but one, blonde with blue eyes!  And partly because tradition has it that the Germans stopped over during the Crusades, and some stayed!

Here's the other side of the story written by a friend from Germany:

"I am still convinced of the  Bavarians' origin from Armenia, as it was told here in the Middle Ages! ;-)
Germanicia as a name existed in the Roman Empire.
Colored Easter eggs are also a tradition here. In the old days they were colored with different natural colors (among them onion skins) and were made shiny with bacon. . . 

"And there is a kind of game pecking the hard boiled Easter eggs to another and the one whose egg does not break can keep both.

"I think you can find all you want to know in (copied below):"

Bavarians descended from Armenians
In the poem, folk tales collected by the Bavarians, telling of the exodus of their ancestors from Armenia. In particular, states that Armenians still speak the language, which initially Bavarians talked . The name "Bavaria" is derived from the name of an Armenian prince Bayorus, which led his tribe came from Armenia, from the vicinity of Mount Ararat, and breaking a long way, made it to Germany, settling in the south and the land called by his name "Bavaria".

Fragment in the original old-Germanic
Here is an excerpt from the poem in the original version, the old-Germanic language, which describes the history of the Bavarians. Duo sich Beirelant wider in virmaz, Die mêrin Reginsburch her se bisaz, Dâ vanter inne Helm unti brunigen, Manigin helit guodin, Die dere burg hû[h]din. Wiliche Knechti dir wêrin, Deist in heidnischin buochin mêri. Dâ lisit man Noricus ensis, Daz diudit ein suert Beierisch, Wanti si woldin wizzen Daz inge[m]ini baz nibizzin, Die man dikke durch den helm slûg; Demo liute was ie diz ellen gût. Dere geslehte dare quam wîlin êre Von Armenie der hêrin, Dâ Nôê ûz der arkin gîng, Dûr diz olizuî von der tûvin intfieng: Iri zeichin noch du archa havit Ûf den bergin Ararat. Man sagit daz dar in halvin noch sîn Die dir Diutischin sprecchin, Ingegin India vili verro. Peiere vûrin ie ziwîge gerno: Den sigin den Cêsar an un gewan Mit bluote mûster in geltan. and much better as I could tell.

The problem of the Bavarians is their uncertain origin. All other German tribes (Saxons, Thuringians, Swabians, Franconians ...)are mentioned early in the chronicles and historians know about their routes in the "time of migration of the peoples" (is that the correct expression?).
The Bavarians come up relatively late (not before mid - 6th century) and it is still unknown where they really originated from, although there are several theories. Maybe they have already been there since Roman times, but it is also possible - as malicious people say - that they are descendants of those left back just in that migration time because of orthopeadic problems ;-)

So stating, a descendance from the oldest people in the world could be an attempt to solve that problem. In the Middle Ages chronologists had no scruples!  End of Wikipedia Article.

Back in the United States, Gary Lind-Sinanian, curator of the Armenian Library and Museum of America, wrote the following in answer to the inquiry :

I suppose it is possible, but unlikely. Every early people tried to polish up their history by associating retroactively with other earlier prestigious peoples or dynasties. Basic human nature. In this case, simply immigrating from the East was too ambiguous, so the association became tied to a direct migration from Mt. Ararat/ Armenia. All fun and speculation, but no evidence to back-up the notion.

I once told someone that “the Armenians invented the doorknob” with a straight face (I was kidding). Two months later a California Armenian informed me that his local paper just published the little-known fact that Armenians invented the doorknob! These things can take on a life of their own.


  1. Very interesting, but what really caught my attention as I was scrolling past this post is that I read it as BARBARIANS and did a double-take. :)

  2. Very interesting, but what really caught my attention as I was scrolling past this post is that I read it as BARBARIANS and did a double-take. :)

  3. Certainly the native Bavarians would be to some extent descended from groups that had moved into the region from 'the East', though where exactly in the East remains ambiguous. My Bavarian grandmother is olive-skinned and once had jet black hair (likewise before it turned grey from old age), though I heard that jet black hair is pretty rare even for Bavarians. At the moment I believe the Armenian/general near Eastern theory, though additionally, the Bavarians would also be partly descended from other factions like the Huns and Magyars; given where such groups went, fought - won and lost, and later settled (likewise, not only in Hungary).